I realize we export less than we import, but $995 billion in exports is nothing to sneeze at.

As for our allies, their militaries wouldn’t be supporting us without political approval. The Dutch government collapsed over this issue! It’s a pretty big one. The people aren’t crazy about the war, but the issue isn’t so contentious that it will force a vote either way. And we do have MOST of NATO. What we need is for our allies to lift some of the caveats under which they operate. THAT’s what’s costly and unpopular. I’m actually impressed with the newer members of NATO. They’ve sacrificed everything despite declining economies and defense budgets to keep their NATO commitments. I gotta give them credit… they’re trying.

I keep hearing these rumors about EU nations hoarding their national currencies because they are half convinced the Euro will fail. I guess we’ll see.

Oh, I’m not happy about it, it’s just that I pretty much expect us to do the dumbest thing possible these days…

“And yes, the collective security guarantee is more for the benefit of our allies than us. There’s nothing new and different there. We’re the big kid on the block.”

Yeah, but for how much longer? That’s the big question.

“Some of our allies have really been terrific, though. The Brits, the Poles, and others… Many of these nations have sacrificed nearly EVERYTHING to help us out in Afghanistan. Literally. They’ve sacrificed their own territorial defense, which will make them more reliant upon Article 5 guarantees.”

True, but it’s mostly their militaries that are supporting us. The civilian population, the key ingredient in any wartime situation, is what concerns me. And there aren’t nearly enough of the Brits and Poles (or Canadians & Australians for that matter). We’re facing a foe that can just keep tapping the pipeline for more fighters pretty much indefinitely. In a war of wills, I’m not sure I can really bet on us in the long term. My point was that we need all of NATO, not just a few of them (example, we’re losing the Dutch this year…not really sure if that’s a tremendous loss).

As for the EU, I was thinking more long term in that regard. The EU doesn’t have any external enemies (Russia is a joke, regardless of their saber-rattling). Yes, the EU has a lot of work, but I think it was expected that they’ll take the current time to consolidate. The question is what the EU will look like when they do consolidate…

“Our economy is screwed. Will be MORE screwed if our export market is damaged.”

Well, we have more of an import than export economy. I have a nasty suspicion that it won’t matter either way with our debt being the way it is. If people aren’t buying (i.e. holding on to their money for essentials), then our economy will fall apart.

“I’m a cynic and a pessimist as well, but I’m also optimistic of our ability to pull ourselves out once we hit rock bottom.”

I used to think that way, but I work at a university. The kids I see coming through just don’t have a clue. In order for our country to work, we really need the majority to be responsibile citizens. I see the exact opposite, which doesn’t bode well for the future (yeah, that’s pretty dark)…

And yes, the collective security guarantee is more for the benefit of our allies than us. There’s nothing new and different there. We’re the big kid on the block. Some of our allies have really been terrific, though. The Brits, the Poles, and others… Many of these nations have sacrificed nearly EVERYTHING to help us out in Afghanistan. Literally. They’ve sacrificed their own territorial defense, which will make them more reliant upon Article 5 guarantees.

I doubt the EU will take precedence over NATO anytime soon. Maybe in piracy cases, because the alliance doesn’t have mechanisms in place to really deal with that mess. But other than that, no. Besides, with the eurozone being as weak as it is right now, the focus is on EU economics rather than any kind of hegemony to alter the balance of power.

Our economy is screwed. Will be MORE screwed if our export market is damaged. I’m a cynic and a pessimist as well, but I’m also optimistic of our ability to pull ourselves out once we hit rock bottom.

I just saw it as par for the course. That’s one reason why I don’t think this is going to turn out well in the end.

” My view is that if it wasn’t for us, Karzai wouldn’t be in power in the first place, his country would be under Taliban yoke, and his people would be sitting around in their own filth, playing with camel shit (not that they’re not doing that already, but at least they’re not getting stoned to death by the Taliban for showing disrespect to their cult-god). And if he and his idiot fellow politicians got off their collective rumps and kicked some ANA ass to get them to train and perform their duties better, he wouldn’t need NATO and the US there for much longer!”

ANA is a joke. All that nonsense with them being with the Marines in Marjah was a lie. The Marines and the Brits did all of the heavy lifting (with very few exceptions) from what I heard. I’m not sure I like our military puffing up and praising the ANA the way they are (yes, I understand why they do it for political reasons, but I still don’t like it). They’re setting themselves up for a big disappointment. My concern is that we’ll set the ANA up, fight a little longer and then leave. At that point the ANA will do as well against the Taliban as the Afghan government forces did against the mujahadeen back in ’89-early’90′s.

“Ungrateful lout.”

I’d use stronger language, but yes, I agree with this.

“As for NATO, yes, it’s relevant – mostly because of the Article 5 collective security guarantee.”

Yeah, I guess that was my point. It seems to favor Europe over us. I don’t see how much of a security guarantee we’re actually getting. I mean, 9/11 should have galvanized NATO (and it did for a very, very short time). However, NATO support has been lukewarm at best with way too many conditions. Given the fact that European NATO countries cut their military budgets by over 50% following the Cold War, they’re increasingly irrelevant with very little in the way of projecting their remaining force without our help (which is why I laugh at the EU). I would have agreed with this in the 80′s against the Soviets. Not so sure about now.

“Many of our NATO allies are also our biggest trade partners.”

And most of them are EU countries to boot. And the EU doesn’t like us. My guess is that the EU will slowly take precedence over NATO (even with all of their many initial problems). Yeah, we’ll trade with them, but I suspect that there will be some tariffs involved in later years, particularly with China growing the way they are. That’s one of the problems with us having a import heavy economy. That was great when we were super wealthy and everything was stable, like in the 90′s. There’s a lot of instability now and we’re racking up huge amounts of debt. Like I said, my concern economically is China becoming at least an equal trading partner with the EU (not good for us) or even worse, an alternative one.

“If they get attacked and there’s no alliance to stand up as one, our economy gets SCREWED. That’s my take, anyway.”

Personally, I think our economy will be screwed no matter what we do. Like I said, this debt situation is festering and will become a huge issue soon (indeed, it already is…we just haven’t realized it yet). We have a government that seems to be ratcheting up the spending no matter which political party is in charge. Indeed, I think the economic situation, more than any other, is what will force us to pull out of Afghanistan eventually. We just can’t keep pouring money down a sinkhole.

Granted, I will be the first one to admit that I’m both a cynic and a pessimist, but I don’t really see a rosy future for us.

My view is that if it wasn’t for us, Karzai wouldn’t be in power in the first place, his country would be under Taliban yoke, and his people would be sitting around in their own filth, playing with camel shit (not that they’re not doing that already, but at least they’re not getting stoned to death by the Taliban for showing disrespect to their cult-god). And if he and his idiot fellow politicians got off their collective rumps and kicked some ANA ass to get them to train and perform their duties better, he wouldn’t need NATO and the US there for much longer!

Ungrateful lout.

As for NATO, yes, it’s relevant – mostly because of the Article 5 collective security guarantee. Many of our NATO allies are also our biggest trade partners. If they get attacked and there’s no alliance to stand up as one, our economy gets SCREWED. That’s my take, anyway.

Nicki

Again, no argument here. BTW, is NATO even relevant to us anymore? If it were up to me, whole villages and cities would be going up in smoke. I’d honestly be the reincarnation of Genghis Khan. The way we’re fighting this now is absolutely insane and will result in nothing more than waging some tit-for-tat garbage which we’ll get tired of and call it quits (which would be catastrophic). Fight a war totally or not at all.

Take Marjah, for example. The second day of the attack, we hit a dwelling which did house some Taliban. The civilians were being used as shields. We hit it with HIMARS and took it out, but the civilians died. So we couldn’t use HIMARS after that (at least that I know of). Sorry, but if it saves the life of one American soldier to flatten a village, I say go for it. 13 dead soldiers for 120 or so Taliban isn’t a good ratio (and how many of them didn’t have to die?).

And personally, I could give less of a rat’s flying arse about what people think of our treatment of terrorist scumbags. When they lose thousands of theirs in senseless camelhumper attacks, then they can spew. Until then, they can STFU.

Ooops! Was that out loud?”

Hey, no argument from me on that note. The problem is that there’s tons of people who think otherwise. I mean, God forbid we actually try to kill any of these lowlifes. That would sink us down to their level (who said this is a bad thing, exactly?).

When I think of all this, I start thinking of the ROE’s that our troops have to deal with (you know, the ones that seem to have the sole purpose of just killing our own soldiers for no apparent reason) and I want to puke.

Ooops! Was that out loud?

It’ll never happen. He’s got rights, ya know?…yeah, rights…

This is one reason why I think we’ll eventually lose this war. We’re fighting it totally the wrong way. We’re going after individuals while they train dozens. How many times over the last nine years have we trumpeted the capture of someone and then we find out that it’s business as usual? These POS’s are like a friggin’ virus. You get one, and several pop up in their place. The only way we’ll win this is if we take out whole swathes of them at once.