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	<title>Comments on: Feministing on why &#8220;heteronormative&#8221; dating sucks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks</link>
	<description>Smokin' Hot Commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:45:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: lj</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-15646</link>
		<dc:creator>lj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-15646</guid>
		<description>i read their article and was going along with it and the comments (whining). Thankfully you shook me out of that. 

Nobody is forcing anyone to follow rules. Follow them or dont. Their are consequences for your choices in life. They dont understand that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i read their article and was going along with it and the comments (whining). Thankfully you shook me out of that. </p>
<p>Nobody is forcing anyone to follow rules. Follow them or dont. Their are consequences for your choices in life. They dont understand that.</p>
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		<title>By: Kamikapse</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-6502</link>
		<dc:creator>Kamikapse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-6502</guid>
		<description>Wow Cassy, 

You sure are one bitter assclown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Cassy, </p>
<p>You sure are one bitter assclown.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5385</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 06:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5385</guid>
		<description>Dear Cassy,

I get the feeling that these Feministing clowns are a source of much amusement? lol. (I can see why!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Cassy,</p>
<p>I get the feeling that these Feministing clowns are a source of much amusement? lol. (I can see why!)</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen J.</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5349</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 01:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5349</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Those women who go out with obviously dangerous/abusive lowlifes ’cause they’re “bad boyz”, and then after getting the obvious results of their morally retarded behavior run around attempting to get revenge on all men, and encouraging others to do the same, need not be apologized for, or excused.&lt;/i&gt;

And I neither excuse them nor apologize for them.  I simply point out that they are not the only ones making bad choices.  It strikes me that rather than just condemning the admittedly stupid choices made by women who&#039;ve had the images of &quot;bad = sexy&quot; drummed into their heads by five decades of profit-driven movies and ads (and, arguably, by five aeons of evolution which rewarded aggressiveness and possessiveness as survival strategies), it might be more useful to &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; condemn (and rather more strongly) the evil choices made by the men who take advantage of that ignorance for their own gratification.

There&#039;s only so much we can do in practice to protect people from their own folly, and there&#039;s certainly such a thing as being too overprotective.  But there is also such a thing as callousness, and indifference, and lack of charity.  We are commanded as Christians to &lt;i&gt;try&lt;/i&gt; to help those in need, even if the attempt is rejected by those to whom it&#039;s offered.  &quot;Make stupid choices and pay the price&quot; sounds entirely too much like Cain&#039;s &quot;Am I my brother&#039;s keeper?&quot; for my comfort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Those women who go out with obviously dangerous/abusive lowlifes ’cause they’re “bad boyz”, and then after getting the obvious results of their morally retarded behavior run around attempting to get revenge on all men, and encouraging others to do the same, need not be apologized for, or excused.</i></p>
<p>And I neither excuse them nor apologize for them.  I simply point out that they are not the only ones making bad choices.  It strikes me that rather than just condemning the admittedly stupid choices made by women who&#8217;ve had the images of &#8220;bad = sexy&#8221; drummed into their heads by five decades of profit-driven movies and ads (and, arguably, by five aeons of evolution which rewarded aggressiveness and possessiveness as survival strategies), it might be more useful to <i>also</i> condemn (and rather more strongly) the evil choices made by the men who take advantage of that ignorance for their own gratification.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s only so much we can do in practice to protect people from their own folly, and there&#8217;s certainly such a thing as being too overprotective.  But there is also such a thing as callousness, and indifference, and lack of charity.  We are commanded as Christians to <i>try</i> to help those in need, even if the attempt is rejected by those to whom it&#8217;s offered.  &#8220;Make stupid choices and pay the price&#8221; sounds entirely too much like Cain&#8217;s &#8220;Am I my brother&#8217;s keeper?&#8221; for my comfort.</p>
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		<title>By: J David</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5341</link>
		<dc:creator>J David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5341</guid>
		<description>Those women who go out with obviously dangerous/abusive lowlifes &#039;cause they&#039;re &quot;bad boyz&quot;, and then after getting the obvious results of their morally retarded behavior run around attempting to get revenge on all men, and encouraging others to do the same, need not be apologized for, or excused. Make stupid choices and pay the price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those women who go out with obviously dangerous/abusive lowlifes &#8217;cause they&#8217;re &#8220;bad boyz&#8221;, and then after getting the obvious results of their morally retarded behavior run around attempting to get revenge on all men, and encouraging others to do the same, need not be apologized for, or excused. Make stupid choices and pay the price.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen J.</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5331</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5331</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;It seems to me that if I can persuade someone else to pay my bills for me, I’m the one in control, not him.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Depends on one very simple factor:  the expectation and pressure of recompense.  Some gallant gestures are less gallant than others, if you get my meaning, and what should be a no-strings gift is often treated as a down payment.

What can be easy to forget when taking apart screeds like Samhita&#039;s is that for a lot of women they are based on genuinely bad personal experience.  Where Samhita goes wrong is where a lot of us go wrong: we project our personal pain onto the system from which it came and assume the entire system is actively unjust, rather than merely indifferent.

And that projection can work in reverse, too.  Because many of us posting here have had no problems with the traditional system, that does not necessarily mean the system has no problems.  Samhita&#039;s motives may be more subjective than she realizes or wants to admit; that does not mean her criticisms cannot have merit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;It seems to me that if I can persuade someone else to pay my bills for me, I’m the one in control, not him.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Depends on one very simple factor:  the expectation and pressure of recompense.  Some gallant gestures are less gallant than others, if you get my meaning, and what should be a no-strings gift is often treated as a down payment.</p>
<p>What can be easy to forget when taking apart screeds like Samhita&#8217;s is that for a lot of women they are based on genuinely bad personal experience.  Where Samhita goes wrong is where a lot of us go wrong: we project our personal pain onto the system from which it came and assume the entire system is actively unjust, rather than merely indifferent.</p>
<p>And that projection can work in reverse, too.  Because many of us posting here have had no problems with the traditional system, that does not necessarily mean the system has no problems.  Samhita&#8217;s motives may be more subjective than she realizes or wants to admit; that does not mean her criticisms cannot have merit.</p>
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		<title>By: Cylar</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5328</link>
		<dc:creator>Cylar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5328</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I really couldn&#039;t care less what makes homosexuals feel uncomfortable or whatever. They want to run afoul of God&#039;s laws and what normal people consider acceptable...they can pay the price. Not my problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I really couldn&#8217;t care less what makes homosexuals feel uncomfortable or whatever. They want to run afoul of God&#8217;s laws and what normal people consider acceptable&#8230;they can pay the price. Not my problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Cylar</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5327</link>
		<dc:creator>Cylar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5327</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a saying - when a man opens a car door for a woman...either the car is new, or the woman is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a saying &#8211; when a man opens a car door for a woman&#8230;either the car is new, or the woman is.</p>
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		<title>By: Cylar</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5326</link>
		<dc:creator>Cylar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5326</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve certainly had my fill of women who react negatively to my gentlemenly gestures like paying the tab or saying she looks nice. What I keep telling myself is that women like that are still outnumbered by the ones who appreciate it...having themselves gotten fed up with men who don&#039;t care (or who are trying to buy sex).

When I run across anyone who seems bitter, perpetually angry, or otherwise cynical...I smile, thank them for their time, and go on with my life. I simply do not have enough time on this Earth to waste any of it. Especially not while trying to change the minds of some girl so immersed in bigotry, that she&#039;s convinced herself that half of the human race are nothing but predators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve certainly had my fill of women who react negatively to my gentlemenly gestures like paying the tab or saying she looks nice. What I keep telling myself is that women like that are still outnumbered by the ones who appreciate it&#8230;having themselves gotten fed up with men who don&#8217;t care (or who are trying to buy sex).</p>
<p>When I run across anyone who seems bitter, perpetually angry, or otherwise cynical&#8230;I smile, thank them for their time, and go on with my life. I simply do not have enough time on this Earth to waste any of it. Especially not while trying to change the minds of some girl so immersed in bigotry, that she&#8217;s convinced herself that half of the human race are nothing but predators.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.cassyfiano.com/2008/10/feministing-on-why-heteronormative-dating-sucks/comment-page-1#comment-5324</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cassyfiano.com/?p=1692#comment-5324</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s amusing to read that they are mad because men think Hallmark knows what women want more than the individual woman herself, but then they write shelves full of books and create web sites telling women that the feminists know what they really want and if they think otherwise they&#039;re just confused.

So much of the logic here is backwards anyway. A man paying for you is an act of domination? It seems to me that if I can persuade someone else to pay my bills for me, I&#039;m the one in control, not him. A man is willing to pay for a date because he thinks that just being allowed to spend some time with this woman is a privilege worth paying for. That&#039;s a sign of respect, not subjugation.

A man opening the door for you or holding your chair is an act of domination? Hmm. If a man insists that a woman bring him his beer, he&#039;s dominating her. If a man offers to open a door for a woman, he&#039;s dominating her.

In general the feminist philosophy seems to be: If a man does X to or for a woman, he&#039;s oppressing her. If a woman does the exact same X to or for a man, he&#039;s oppressing her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amusing to read that they are mad because men think Hallmark knows what women want more than the individual woman herself, but then they write shelves full of books and create web sites telling women that the feminists know what they really want and if they think otherwise they&#8217;re just confused.</p>
<p>So much of the logic here is backwards anyway. A man paying for you is an act of domination? It seems to me that if I can persuade someone else to pay my bills for me, I&#8217;m the one in control, not him. A man is willing to pay for a date because he thinks that just being allowed to spend some time with this woman is a privilege worth paying for. That&#8217;s a sign of respect, not subjugation.</p>
<p>A man opening the door for you or holding your chair is an act of domination? Hmm. If a man insists that a woman bring him his beer, he&#8217;s dominating her. If a man offers to open a door for a woman, he&#8217;s dominating her.</p>
<p>In general the feminist philosophy seems to be: If a man does X to or for a woman, he&#8217;s oppressing her. If a woman does the exact same X to or for a man, he&#8217;s oppressing her.</p>
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